Tech, Travel, and Twang!
Come for the thoughts, stay for the tea. The co-founders of Destination Innovate, Jennifer Barbee and Kristen Cruz brew up the latest industry tea every Tuesday - diving into simmering issues, hot trends, and special guests. Grab a cup and let’s spill the tea!
Tech, Travel, and Twang!
Women Leading the Way: Tech, Travel, and Transformative Journeys
Ever wondered how leaders in tech and travel navigate their careers while pushing for gender parity? Join us in this fascinating episode where we sit down with Vered Schwarz, President and COO of Guesty, who shares her inspiring journey from law to scaling major companies like Fiverr and Guesty. Vered emphasizes the key role of taking risks and stepping into uncharted territories to fuel one's career growth. We also dig into the transformative impact of platforms like Airbnb on our lifestyles, especially post-COVID, and how the hospitality sector is evolving.
Women command a significant influence in hospitality and travel decisions, making their representation in tech roles more crucial than ever. This episode shines a spotlight on the dynamic contributions of women in shaping products and services that cater to a predominantly female user base. Learn about the power of personal branding, public speaking, and recent milestones achieved by Guesty, including a staggering $630 million funding round and the acquisition of Rentals United. We also discuss the innovative strides in AI and tech within the industry, and how they are setting the stage for the future of short-term rentals.
Lastly, we tackle the deeply personal and professional challenges women face, such as building confidence and combating imposter syndrome. Vered shares her strategies for effective communication and self-confidence, necessary tools for thriving in high-stakes environments. Tune in to explore the future trends in travel and hospitality, including the role of AI in creating bespoke experiences and the rising popularity of themed rentals. Celebrate with us the supportive networks of female leaders in tech, and the invaluable mentorships that pave the way for future generations. This episode is packed with actionable insights and empowering stories you won't want to miss!
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The Tech, Travel, and Twang Podcast is hosted by Co-Founders, Kristen Cruz and Jenn Barbee with Destination Innovate. Learn More! https://destinationinnovate.com/about/
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Well, hello, welcome back to Tech Travel and Twang. Well, hi, welcome back to Tech Travel and Twang. This is our special guest edition, super happy to have a whole new perspective on something Kristen and I have been talking about a long time, which is gender parity in tech and travel. Hey, kristen.
Speaker 2:Good morning Jen.
Speaker 1:So I'm really excited to announce our guest, virid Shores, who is the president and COO of Guessy, and if you have not heard of Guessy, you need to re-evaluate what you're doing with your life.
Speaker 3:Welcome. Thank you. It is so wonderful to be here with you, ladies, awesome.
Speaker 1:It's great to have you Tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you into travel and tech.
Speaker 3:So I've been with Gessie for over six years now and that was really my first introduction into the hospitality space. It is my fifth company in terms of tech, so before Guesty I was at four other tech companies. The recent one was F. Really exciting journey. I joined them as the first executive, joined the founders and scaled it from 40 employees to hundreds of employees and going public, and before that I was in three other companies, as I mentioned, and my initial background is law. Actually I was a lawyer doing IPOs and mergers and acquisitions, so quite a journey there.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that is a journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think what I loved about joining the hospitality industry is, first of all, it's so relatable, right. Unlike cyber security or you know, things like that in tech, hospitality is what we all do, right? We all travel, we all host in one way or the other. We're all interested in real estate. Of course, that's always interesting. So really being in that industry that combines them all you know, the travel, the real estate, the properties all around the world and really introducing new trends to how people live and travel and work, if you think about it, the recent years in short-term rentals, since the introduction of Airbnb into our lives, changed so much of how we work, how we live, how we travel, especially since COVID, with people being able to work from anywhere and combining business and leisure. So I just found everything to be so exciting in this industry and I've been happy and excited for the past six plus years doing that.
Speaker 1:That's incredible, that's incredible. Let's wind back just a minute before the travel part because I want to validate, because Cindy said Fiverr, I knew I was like, oh my gosh, like, how did she get over there? Like I want to hear some of the some of the being a female in tech coming up story. So give us a little bit of like. What was that like? And you know, what did you find to be your best strategies to move up in that environment?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like, and you know, what did you find to be your best strategies to move up in that environment? Yeah, first of all, it was a lot of hard work.
Speaker 2:Let's not forget that I can imagine.
Speaker 3:I think one of the most important lessons I've learned is to put myself out there and always take risks, even when the decision was not that obvious Okay, I know that a lot of people. When the decision was not that obvious Okay, I know that a lot of people. When I joined Fiverr, for example, it was a small company selling digital stuff for $5. It seems to be like something really, really weird and a lot of my friends said why are you leaving? You know a high paid job in a mid-sized tech company for that. And I said I don't know. There is something about the story, about you know, and, as I mentioned with Gessie, it's about you know, understanding there is a change in the way people work in the world and I really felt that you know the emotional connection to that. And I also knew that diving into that small company, starting from scratch and building it up, gives me an opportunity that I might not get in bigger companies. So one thing to think about when you take career choices is sometimes you have to like go down in term of the size of company or the security of your work right In order to get the chances to be a C-level executive, because I moved from being a VP of operations and general counsel to the COO of Fiverr and that enabled me really to move up in my career, take on more roles and responsibilities and manage a large team eventually and brought me after six years to Guesty. So that's one thing. And really taking those risks, not only in terms of choosing the company or the business, also in doing things you're not a hundred percent comfortable in. Right Right, right.
Speaker 3:I started as a lawyer in actually my second company. I was asked to take on operations and I didn't know anything about operations. So I could have said, listen, guys, I'm a lawyer, I don't know anything about operations, I'm just going to be the GC and that's fine. But I said, okay, something new, something I didn't do before, it's climbing up the ladder and I said, yeah, sure, I'll do it, yeah, I can do that, that's easy. And then I just started reading about it, creating a community for myself, talking to people that are doing this role in other companies and understanding what it means, and as a result of that, I learned and managed to expand my role and expand my path into company. So moving from general counsel to general counsel and VP operations, then to COO at Fiverr and now COO and president at Guesty, taking this impact, I'd say, even further, managing more people, more department, and feeling like I have a really strong hold in the Guesty vision, the Guesty direction really being a strong part of the story.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, oh my gosh, that's just like a whole I love to hear yes and I love to hear the strategic moves that you thought about along the way, too, because it is something I think that not a lot of women in our industry, a lot of women in tech, don't understand is sometimes it's not about the consistency going up, it's about the strategy going in between, and I think that is not something that a lot of us really think about in the moment until we're offered an opportunity where we have to think a bit more strategic. So I love hearing that story.
Speaker 1:Right. I love the piece about creating a community for yourselves, because I think that's something I know women in. You know a lower part of tech that we're in, but I know that they're. You know where do you find something Like? If it's not there, then create it for you. So I love that piece of it. I feel like that. That backstory is so much to unpack. That's a whole motivational talk in and of itself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and think about it back then, because I'm not that young there was no social community, right. We didn't have LinkedIn and all that. We had to actually connect with people sending emails and say, hey, let's meet up, let's have a call like a call, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes, yes, and I feel like too, because I spent a little bit of time in the tech marketing side for a few years and it felt like and you probably had the same experience that you were constantly in a room full of men Like you were a lot of times a very solo woman in a male tech dominated space Really having to form those relationships because we didn't have all the social tools and technologies we have now to do that any other way, but spend that time really cultivating those relationships and earning that seat at the table. It was a lot harder to earn that seat back in that timeframe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, funny story because you said, alone in a room full of men.
Speaker 3:So the first time I really decided that I need to do something about this and really promote women in tech and promote gender parity was a little over 10 years ago or 12. I was at Fiverr at the time and one of our investors invited us to this meetup of the senior executives of older portfolio companies. And I come in. There are about 50 people in the room and I am the only woman. Okay, the only woman.
Speaker 3:It was that funny that someone came over to me and asked me hey, do you happen to be Verit? And I told him let's look around. Who else could it be? It could only be me. I thought about it. Then I said it's just, it's impossible. It doesn't make any sense that I'm the only woman in the room, and why aren't there more of us? And I decided to do something about it. I decided to write about it, I decided to talk to my community about it, I decided to see how I promote women in Fiverr at the time and later on at Guesty, and how do I really help women become a bigger part of this tech community? That is amazing.
Speaker 1:I want to hear more about that, with how you promote women, especially at Guesty now, like, what kind of programs or mentoring or what do you put into place to support that vision, because I love that.
Speaker 3:Sure, Currently we are about 43% women at Guesty oh wow, and 50 employees right. So that is quite a lot. It's hard to maintain at our size, and I think a few things that have led us to that is, first of all, the intent right, and I do not promote hiring a woman just because she's a woman. I promote having the right policies and practices to eliminate bias and to give women a fair chance. And I do believe that, since we're over 50% of the population and we're very talented, there are definitely great women out there for almost every role and we should give them a chance. And once you implement those strategies and once you tell your team that that's what you expect, once you have enough women in different roles in the company and enough interviewers that are not just men, they hire a diverse set of people. They understand that different people can contribute to our company and to our culture and as a result of that, you get a more diverse company.
Speaker 3:And I think what is even more important is not just start with the hiring. I mean, you start with the hiring process, but you have to move on and say how do I create unbiased promotion policies and how do I make sure that there's an inclusive environment out there. And how do I make sure that if there's an open role for promotion, women actually apply to it? And that means you don't just post in our internal portal, hey, there's an opportunity. You actually reach out to women. If they didn't, you know, apply and say, hey, why didn't you apply for this management role? I think you could be a great fit. You should try it. And we also have mentorship program where we help women hone their skills and encourage them to speak in conferences, Okay, and to really perfect their you know appearance on stage and how to brand themselves and how to be better managers and how to be more prepared for the next level of the role.
Speaker 2:I love that that's, yeah, the, the effort that you're making to remove that bias from even a process or something that could be misconstrued, I think is so important because it does allow you.
Speaker 2:It is more about making, creating that space for fair diversity, where you're opening those opportunities up, not necessarily targeting the fact that you want to be a more equal, diverse, diverse organization by reaching out to more women, but I also love, love, love that you guys make the effort within your business to talk to women who have that management opportunity or that management vibe that they could potentially be in that role, but that confidence just isn't there, and that's just. The bigger issue in our industry in general is that we lack, as a, as a women in hospitality and tech. We lack that confidence because a lot of there's been a lot more slow adoption, and we've gotten so much better since, I think, pandemic timeframe too, where there, though, it's been more of a conversation. We've hit the nail on the head in so many forms of media, but I think there's still so much work to do, and I just love to hear that you guys are going down that path so consistently.
Speaker 1:There is, and it triggered a question for me actually and Kristen, you furthered that for me which is there's a lot of women on the other side in the destination marketing space, so there's definitely more women than men in that space. However, they're not large corporations, so they don't have built in pieces of that and also very often, even in the highest positions, they don't seem to have as big of a seat at the table as if if you'll excuse the old boys club reference. So would you have advice for those DNO female leaders who may not have the infrastructure around to support them, Maybe how to better get at the table?
Speaker 3:Sure. First of all, I think that community is so important and today, unlike my younger self, there are so many opportunities. There are so many groups on Facebook and LinkedIn and virtual meetups and the ability to really connect to other women in your industry and be stronger together. A few years back, amy Hynode created the VR Women's Summit. Okay, and I know that the first one people said what Women's Summit? What you know, why is that? But you know what? The first time I set my foot there, it was so amazing because it really created this safe space for women where they can support each other and be more vulnerable and talk about, you know, the things that bother them and think of how they can really create a better future for themselves. And there was something about it. I mean, I met with competitors and I met with people that I didn't know, and but we were all in that same boat of women in the industry and we should have our fair share at the table. And, if you think about it, women are.
Speaker 3:If you look at the hospitality space as a whole, women make up more than 50% of the workforce and, more importantly, I just I saw this article that 82% of travel decisions are made by women, which makes a lot of sense to me, because my husband any travel decision in his life. But the thing is, if women are the majority of the hospitality industry and the majority of the customers, right, how can men decide what's good for them? There should definitely be more women in hospitality tech. To support a better product more suited for the average customer, that would probably be a woman, and I think that one of the things that we're seeing is that you also need to be creative about what it means to be a woman in the industry and a woman in tech. Right, it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 3:You don't have to be a developer, you can be a marketer. Of course, you see a large share of the marketing roles being held by women. You can be a product designer or a product manager. We have the majority of roles in those departments. For example, for us are women, not men, and I see it in the if you think about the DMO industry. Women are great marketers. They can be great at their job. They should own it, they should build a brand for themselves, they should write about it, they should tell the world why they excel at what they do and create that momentum around them that would have either men or women.
Speaker 1:Give them that seat at the table and I love that piece about building a brand for yourself. I think a lot of women, especially if they're employed by a larger corporation, shy from that because they feel like it's disloyal. But I actually feel like and I would love your opinion I feel like it strengthens your whole organization if you have this like army of branded talented, smart women.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And, speaking of putting yourself out there, I really encourage women to go and speak at conferences, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Because, yes, and it's difficult, right? I think that lately, again, many conferences have that in mind and understand it can be an all-men panel for the entire day. They have to bring a more diverse panel and they have to have more women on stage. But it's not just about women in senior roles, it's women that are willing to do that. And sometimes women tell me oh, I'm shy, I don't want to speak, I'm not good at speaking in front of an audience, and I say, well, you didn't try, you need to try it, you need to practice. I was probably pretty bad on stage the first time, but you learn over time, right?
Speaker 1:So it's a critical skill for anything at any part you want to do, I feel like, so I love that encouragement as well, I think when being on stage.
Speaker 3:really, it gives you that brand, that credibility, that you're invited to speak on stage about your expertise, about your profession, about your opinion, and I think it's a huge thing for your career.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. So I do want to ask a little bit about what's going on with Guesty right now. What are some big new news that you could share with us and our listeners? I'd love to hear a little bit about what's going on with the company, too.
Speaker 3:Sure, so I'm very proud of where we are and what we've achieved. A few months ago, we've released that we secured our last round of funding with KKR. If you're not familiar with them, they're one of the largest firms in the world, with more than $500 billion in assets, so that was huge for us. We had $630 million in our last round and right following that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. And right following that, we've made our seventh acquisitions. We acquired seven companies to date, but one was pretty recent Rentals United. I don't know if you're familiar with them. They're the leading channel manager for short-term rentals. They're located in Barcelona and Poland a great team and they really allow us to have an even more robust connectivity solution for our customers of all shapes and sizes. So those were two big pieces of news on the business side. On the product side, we keep innovating. We did a lot on the AI front lately. We released our GPO, our Guesty Price Optimizer, about a year ago. Then we released our Reply AI, our AI agent for responding to guest messages automatically.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's a huge pain.
Speaker 3:I don't have to tell you that, yeah, and just two months ago, we released our Review AI tool that now allows you to automatically review. Ai tool that now allows you to automatically categorize and move to a call to action on guests' negative reviews. So, whether it's like they're not happy with the cleaning or the noise, or the check-in process or whatever, you automatically get a call to action as to what you have to do to improve your property and then improve your reviews. That, and I think the last thing I can say about AI is we also released an AI website builder that allows you to automatically generate content and create a beautiful website, which is also amazing.
Speaker 3:And that's great and innovating on our bread and butter, releasing more connectivity solutions, more financial and accounting solutions. And one more thing that we've done is really segment the property solutions into the light solution for the smaller host and the pro solution for the smaller host and the pro solution for the bigger host, and really create different offerings based on your size and needs. Uh, that's going along really well as well. I love that. I can go on and on, but I don't want to bore you guys oh, I have no yeah yeah, I mean just the enhancements.
Speaker 2:I know for sure, when I was kind of digging in and looking at like the response AI part of it, I'm like oh, I could imagine this is like heaven for those that are managing so much, especially if you have multiple units and you have multiple check-ins going on at the same time or just you know doing that follow-up. So that was that I thought was a biggie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, in our industry it's all about cost effectiveness and about being, you know, doing more with less and and being more responsive and being really quick. And the more we automate and the more tools we release, the more we enable our customers to be better hosts and be better by their customers, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is super important for our DMOs in the world too, who rely on travelers having great short-term rental experiences. You know, I mean that is part of what we're seeing more DMOs doing. Outside of promoting the hotels and marketing the hotels is also marketing the entire accommodation set in the destination. That includes short-term rentals and vacation rentals, and the more tools these hosts have to give the best experience, it impacts the entire destination, and I think more DMOs need to be thinking about how to offer, you know, giving them guidance. Here's some tips and some tools for our short-term rental community. You know this will improve your experience. This will improve our guests' experience, ultimately, the destination's brand and what people remember when they visit, and I think that's a really important conversation that more DMOs should be having for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I know Jen and I spoke about it before we have a specific solution for DMOs. We've built a new technology called Amplify that we're continuously improving to really allow DMOs to have a great solution and also be very inclusive to their community and the short-term rental operators in their community and make sure they're all seen and heard Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's so important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We've had John and David on our podcast before. We're big fans of Amplify and what you do over there. I do think that conversation is starting to tighten or at least loosen from the DMO perspective, because you have to think about the fact that traditionally their boards, their councils, are made up of flag hotels and in no way did they want the short-term rentals to have a seat at the table. But now they can't ignore us and I love that part of it. But I am curious when you talk about hosts, do you see like where that's tipping now? Is that a majority of mom and pops or one or two rentals? Are they really moving towards these larger property management groups?
Speaker 3:First of all, I think there's room for everyone and I think what's important and I talk a lot to property managers and I tell them you have to think about your trajectory as well, just like we talked about women and planning their careers you don't have to be a mega brand with a thousand properties. It's okay to have 20 properties or 50 properties if that's the business you want to run, and also two properties if that's what you want. You can have a small boutique business, very local and really being very encouraging to the local community very encouraging to the local community, and you can have a mega brand in multi-locations and really working on your general appearance and the amenities and the type of service you provide in your properties. And you can appeal to different personas in the travel industry as well. Are you catered for families? Are you catered for business travelers? Are you catered for digital nomads?
Speaker 3:It's really about deciding how you want to run your business. How much do you want to grow it? Do you want to be bootstrapped? Do you want to raise money? Do you want to grow quickly? Is it a lifestyle business? Do you want to sell eventually, or do you want to keep doing it for 30 years and all that will, you know, impact where you go or how you can really be successful at whatever business you choose to have, and I think it's great advice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think, especially for women. The short-term rental business created a huge opportunity for women, in a sense, just like Fiverr created a huge opportunity for women, allowing you to work from anywhere and, you know, be your own boss and not need initial funding to start your business. You can start to be a host anywhere and everywhere, right, and I think women should really take that opportunity. I think over 50% of us are women. I think that a lot of our skills are really built for, you know, being great communicators, creating great hospitality solutions, and there's no reason why we shouldn't be dominant in this market.
Speaker 2:I think intention is really important for our industry and for women to really go after what they know they want to go after, without kind of stripping away all the layers that we have to kind of weed through sometimes. But being intentional, I feel like, is really important for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I just read an article that I found really interesting that women on Airbnb hosted are. Women make less money than men for the same amount of reservations. How does this happen? And I asked myself, why is that? Ok, and maybe I'm wrong, but think about it. There's also a huge, you know, gender pay gap. Women make 80 cents for every dollar a man make. Can that also apply to short-term rentals? We're just shy of asking for too much money for a property, I think it's that?
Speaker 1:I definitely think it's self-confidence and imposter syndrome and all of those things that we are still carrying that we have got to shake off, which actually brings me back to that question have you ever felt like you've had imposter syndrome? You just seem so put together. Have you ever like wrestled with any of that as you on your journey?
Speaker 3:First of all, yeah, I did when I was younger. You know they say, fake it until you make it. I mean, the first time I had to go on stage I was, oh my God, I'm going to stutter, I'm going to forget what I'm supposed to say. I always had the confidence. I think especially about communicating with people. I love people, I love talking to people and I felt the stage was a natural way for me to communicate just with more people. So I tried to take that, to take my strength and see how can I apply them to speaking on stage, for example. And I think the more you get experience with something, just like you know, with speaking on stage, the more you feel comfortable being there. And the same with taking on new roles.
Speaker 3:I told you I took on a role of VP operations. I had absolutely nothing in my career about, you know, learning what to do about it. I just had to come confident for the first meeting and say, yeah, I think we should do this and that, and I wasn't sure right. But I tried to come at it in confidence. And also, I think to fight imposter syndrome takes work and diligence.
Speaker 3:One thing I did is I, you know, studied a lot. I read a lot of articles, I talked to a lot of people. I tried to come with a lot of information to every meeting, to every decision making, to any podcast and any you know page appearance and any interview, and I still prepare right away. I prepare to meeting you, ladies, because it's important to respect the people that are talking to you and are interviewing you or that are coming to a conference to listen to you, and you need to respect them by coming prepared and knowing what you're talking about. And I think that by preparing yourself, it helps you fight off the self-doubt and imposter syndrome because you're coming to stage and you're saying you know what, I know this stuff, I know what I'm going to talk about, I'm an expert, I know what to say about this, and you build your confidence over time.
Speaker 1:I love that and in my mind I'm saying this is like preparing like you would for a test, right, If you're overly studied and you've done the work you're supposed to do, then you have that confidence going in and you're going to ace it. So I love, I love how you lay that out, but I think preparation is so important.
Speaker 1:on so many levels and coming with the information too. I started out as a pro website programmer in like 1996. So there you know, you can imagine no men in the room either. So for me, I didn't want to come off as you know the whatever word that people like to say so I would come overly. I've got this idea for you, john and Mark. I think it'd be cool if you did this and I would just pump them up until they gave me the respect I needed. And maybe that's not the way I would do it today, but how we? You know how we had to navigate in the late 90s, how we had to navigate in the late 90s.
Speaker 3:That's interesting, you know because my dad is a psychologist and when I was younger I used to tell him that. You know, I managed to get things done by telling my manager that it was his idea, right, it's like if he thought about it, it must be a good idea. And then he said to me Farid, you're manipulative. I said what? How can he say that about me? I'm the sweetest thing, how can I? But he said, no, but that's manipulation. You shouldn't manipulate someone to thinking it's his idea. You should convince them that it's your idea and it's a good one, right.
Speaker 3:And I think over time it's like, yeah, I own this. You know, that's what I think, I believe in it. I have the stats or the data, or the information. My point, and I need to convince you that this is the right decision.
Speaker 2:Agreed.
Speaker 2:I love that too, and I feel like over the years, we've become more confident Jen and I have too just in when we pitch ideas or when we pitch campaigns or just really fun things, of pitching it and really being confident in what we're saying and not waiting for the reaction or the did they like it, or the follow-up comment, which was one of our faves.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, or we could make tweaks, or we could, you know so, but really being confident and saying this is what we truly believe is going to work for you and this is how we're going to do it, because this is really where we feel we need to go, and not retracting from that and that has worked so much better for us over the years and really doing some fun, innovative things that I think before we would not have had the chance to do because we were kind of tiptoeing in and now we're kind of opening the door, like, okay, we're here and this is what we have to say, and that is just, I think, so necessary in our world. Plus, we just never you can't ever stop learning, you can't ever stop studying and stop, you know, taking in all the information and asking the right questions and waiting for the right answers, you know, and just being collaborative. It's just an everyday thing for us, so we have to do that just to stay relevant in this crazy, fast-paced, moving world we live in.
Speaker 1:For sure, and the trends are moving so fast too. Yes, that's something. I'm curious, if we can tap into your crystal ball a little bit. And what do you see, maybe in the next 10, 15 years for travel? Do you see any big tectonic shifts?
Speaker 3:Yes, I do think that short-term rentals will stay not just a big trend but a growing trend in our industry. We've seen the shift right. You see hotels here and short-term rentals here but the growth rate of short-term rentals has really outpaced the growth pace of hotels and it is becoming a viable solution for different personas that didn't consider shorter rentals in the past. It also is impacted by the change in the way people live, right, the fact that you can I think since COVID, we've seen tectonic changes in the way people you know travel and live.
Speaker 3:We're just, you know, younger generation, even before COVID, but definitely post-COVID do not want to sign a three-year lease, right. They want to live in a apartment for a month in Atlanta and then figure out if itterm rentals for short vacation all the way up to midterm stays and certain variations, and that continued to develop and hopefully create the majority of hospitality. Eventually, I do think also see hotels continuing to tap into short-term rentals and short-term rentals tapping into some hotel related services and amenities, and I do believe that the lines will slightly blur between the two and you'll have a lot of problems. Is it a hotel? Is it a short term rental? Do you really separate the two or do you have to think of them together as a huge hospitality solution that caters for different needs and different personas of clients?
Speaker 3:And definitely with technology, we can just be so much more effective and personalized and making sure that the right traveler is matched with the right hospitality solution. Ai, of course, will also play a huge part into that. Thinking of you know we're already seeing AI-based travel planning and solutions and I think we'll see more and more of you know full cycle of AI-based planning and booking and we need to be prepared for that we need to think, you know, be tech forward, think about the future and see how can we care for the travelers of the future, the Gen Z and the younger generation. Even that will probably travel differently in a few years.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think the last stat we saw, which was really interesting on Gen Z itself, is they'll spend up to 30 or 40% of their income to travel, so it's becoming way more important. I love the part you put about the transient piece of it being short-term to mid-term. What's considered a mid-term rental? Is that a month? Is that further?
Speaker 3:Monthly stays or anything up to a year, so even a few months, but not something that's supposed to be consistent and long-term. From one year it's definitely long-term. Interesting To your point, I think they don't just spend more money on travel, they also care about the experiences and they spend a lot of money Right. Think about the. You know recreational activities on site and we also see a lot of our customers starting to think about it. I mean, you definitely see Airbnb and booking. Think about it. But you also see short-term stay operators start to think about how can we create a community that also offers different experiences. Can I really tap into my community in terms of food offerings and yoga classes and entertainment, and how can I really increase that high of the travelers spend property and for my community?
Speaker 2:Yes, I love going through the Airbnb experiences just to see all the new things, I mean the crazy stuff that people put together. It's like I want this, but it's fun to see how much that has changed over the last couple of years and how much more offering there is. But also, what's even more I think important and also great to see is that travelers are taking advantage of that. They expect to book experiences, not just stays, and then everything else separate. They love the idea that we are packaging for them an experience that matches their personality and matches their vibe, and using AI to do that. Because another stat I think is important to say and mention here is the amount of travelers that expect AI in their booking journey. They expect some of that AI to deliver a more personalized itinerary and offering to them. So they're already asking for it, they're already expecting it. So it really just pushes that AI technology boundary a lot further down the road and opens up for more tools to really get in the stay. It does really get in the stay. It does.
Speaker 1:And on that last point about community too, I feel like again that brings an opportunity for short-term rentals to get closer to their community. In terms of the DMO, the chamber, the EDC, all of those play a people role that can come together, Like the EDC is serving maybe those digital nomads who are working remotely, you know, remotely, and the chamber is going to have a different thing for local services and then the DMO is going to have for travelers. So I just see more and more evidence every time I have a conversation with somebody in the industry, and especially with you, Verid, that there is a need for that kind of collaboration as well, and maybe women should be leading that.
Speaker 3:Definitely we're great communicators. We said that and yeah, I think that there's an advantage for short-term rentals in, you know, creating those new experiences, because people are looking for unique stays. They're looking for a unique place to stay with a unique, you know, local environment. I think it is more important to people than it was in the past, like people are not looking for that gray, you know room in a gray hotel anymore. That's not vacation.
Speaker 1:Right, right. And then I'm curious you say that too. I'm curious about this this pop-up trend of these very, very niche, like decked out, like Barbie themed short-term rentals. Did those have good returns for them? I'm just wondering. Obviously I would think they would, because they've become very popular, but I just noticed more and more like entertainment blended with you know decor.
Speaker 3:To be honest, I'm not sure. I think a lot of it is just a, you know, kind of a marketing way, because it's just, it causes people to to, to browse and look because it's interesting, and then they could stumble upon something that's really interesting. Oh, I could stay there. But do you really want to stay in a potato or, you know, a barbie house?
Speaker 2:I saw Polly pocket yesterday. I'm not kidding, I saw the same every now and again I look, yeah, but Polly pot, and it was a real house, like a Polly pocket house with like a Polly pocket closet and like it's just insane. But then I'm thinking like how much did it cost for them to put this together? Cause it was very well done. It was just the amount of investment these guys are going into to developing something that's so experiential like that. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:I think it would be a better investment if you doubled down on the entertainment aspect. Like Hallmark, for instance, chris and Christmas, if you partnered that with the rest of the community on the activities around like a theme. That way you know Christmas or something like that, then you have that. I just have noticed that and I had to bring that up of these like extreme. And you're right, I saw the potato. He's been out for a while. You can say the potato too. I mean it's cool and it's gimmicky, but to me it gives a lot more attention to the overall short-term rental market because it's like, hmm, now I've seen this and you kind of go down that rabbit hole and find something that fits you better.
Speaker 3:Right, but it's great. I mean, if it works and I think it did work for them it's a great marketing strategy. I mean, you're the experts on marketing, so you should tell me.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, it's definitely a good marketing play. I would say it gets me, it gets me.
Speaker 1:I mean, I I don't stay in the potatoes, but I find them interesting no, I think it's interesting and uh to your point about ai, and I feel like travelers are are going to expect that more and when we can get to packaging in a way that's so curated and dynamic that it becomes very personal. Like Kristen, this is exactly. Everything's ready for you. Your AI assistant is taking care of it. Absolutely I'm hoping to see in my lifetime and come to fruition, especially with you know tech leaders like Gessie. I feel like we're going to get there faster than we think.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean already really close to getting there. In e-commerce, right, You're getting very targeted promotions of things you're really interested in, and why shouldn't you get the same for travel? Why shouldn't they personalize that? You know, the travel experience that you really love and are looking for?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's also become even with inflation and all this kind of good stuff. There's more ways for people to be able to travel now, now with a firm and Klarna and a buy now, pay later sort of thing. I think that opens up more access, which is also something I love to see, because I really believe that once you get out of your own community and you start traveling, even if it's not international, even if it's domestic, you start to look at the world a little differently, through other people's eyes, and to me, that's my favorite part of being in this industry is being able to see the world through other people's eyes.
Speaker 3:I love that and I think that what makes our industry unique and the community around us unique is that most people in the host community they really love people, they love hosting guests, they love meeting new people or helping them have a fun time, and it's just such a great community to be a part of and I enjoy every minute of it as a result.
Speaker 1:I love that, I love it and I love that. So I have to ask. I know you started as an attorney and then fate said hey, you're an operations gal. What did you? What was the vision growing up? What was your big dream?
Speaker 3:Well, when I was growing up, I knew I want to be in management. Okay, I wanted that leadership role, eventually it's going to. Because I think I want to be in management Okay, I wanted that leadership role, eventually it's going to be because I think I got to that road and like, not the standard way, and I, you know, took a few turns along the way, but I knew I want to be there. I knew I want to be a part of a leadership team. I knew I wanted to manage people and set directions for the businesses I'm a part of. And yeah, again, you can get to your vision in different ways. And I tell I have two daughters and a son. And I tell them sometimes like hey, mom, we're not sure what we want to be and what we want to do, and I say it doesn't matter. You know there's so many roads leading you to success.
Speaker 3:Or to the place that you'll feel good at, and you just need to start walking. You know, start that journey and let it lead you to different directions, and you'll know to take the right turn when you need to.
Speaker 1:I love that kind of being a little bit open to life, but also staying on your direction. Kristen, I always say you know, we have a lot, we take on a lot, we have a lot of projects. We always say, hey, it doesn't matter how slow we're walking, we're still running circles around the guy laying on the couch.
Speaker 2:So, exactly, exactly, and I'm so glad you said that, cause I just told my daughter that like two days ago, cause we were having she's a junior this year and we were having the conversation about, okay, I've got to start being more intentional with my this and my class here, and because it's going to lead to what I'm going to do and I said don't overthink it, because I think what you think you want to do now may not be what you think you want to do 10 years from now. And as long as you're walking through those doors and you're finding and you're observing and looking for opportunity and welcoming opportunity, you're always going to keep going. But I can say just with her attitude, she will be in upper management. She is like the manager of our household.
Speaker 2:She tries to manage me, her brothers. She's a manager, that's the younger daughter right. Yeah, that's the middle manager, that's the younger daughter, right, yeah, that's the middle child, that's the middle. I have a it's boy girl boy for me and she manages, everybody.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, I think, though, our younger females don't have some of thankfully hopefully, I'm saying the right thing Knock on wood, not all of the challenges that we had coming up in the industry. I think it's a different slate for them. I have four daughters. They think they should be running the world. Nobody's going to tell them any different.
Speaker 3:But you know what? They had role models that we didn't have.
Speaker 1:It was rare to have role models at our time, and now there are more of us to show them the way or to show them that there's a possibility, because you can't be what you can't see right and we've, we've shown, I think in a way at least the younger female leaders that I deal with are more emotionally intelligent than then at least my generation coming up, because I think we had the only like boss lady lookup we had was like Alexis Carrington, like the soap opera type thing.
Speaker 3:Like I just totally feel my age, but you know it's a different thing.
Speaker 1:So I love this and I love that the young female leaders have someone like you to look up to and to show the way. And I'd really love to hear, just kind of, for all our listeners out there all age females listening in tech and travel and all of that what would be your top three points of advice for 2025? Like if they were just going to do three things to advance their career, what would you suggest?
Speaker 3:First of all is put yourself out there. And you could put yourself out there in different ways. You could ask to join certain meetings where you think you can contribute or learn. You can ask to join conferences, or ask for speaking opportunities, even to lecture internally within your organization. Right, hey, I have something really cool I've done and I want to share it with the department. You can do that. You don't have to be in an international conference to speak up and post about things you do. Think about interesting articles you can write and again, they don't have to be in your Times articles. You can just, you know, have a thought, develop it and write about yourself, write about your skills, write about what you can do, be out there, be exposed to new opportunities.
Speaker 3:The other thing is take risks. Okay, you can't move up the ladder if you don't want to take that next step. In order to move up the ladder, you have to take a step into somewhere you weren't in before and you're not 100% sure of what to do there. But you have to take that step. And you're not 100% sure of what to do there, but you have to take that step. So take risks.
Speaker 3:You're offered another role. You're offered another position. You're offered just an expansion of your responsibilities. First of all, take it. First of all say yes. Then think how you do it, but first of all say yes. So I think that would be my second one. And the third is I'd say create a community. See how you can find more women to help you. Whether it's finding mentors that will help you to learn things and to make the right connections and to move up the ladder using their advice and their knowledge latter using their advice and their knowledge. If it's creating a community of your peers learning from each other and helping promote each other, thinking how to overcome biases or obstacles that you have on your way, and whether it's creating an even broader community of professionals in your field where you can really learn and elevate yourself as a result.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I can tell you I'm going to have this episode on repeat for myself. Like I just feel like I can go conquer the world now.
Speaker 2:And this. These are the conversations that more women should be having, like. I feel like if you block an hour right of your week, or your month even, and you gather your female counterparts or those that you're closest to and you have these conversations about how we can uplift each other, what can we do better, how can we do things differently, it sets us up for like a continuance of this encouragement and this confidence, you know, for days and weeks to come, and I think doing that consistently is really important.
Speaker 3:By the way, I'm still doing it with different forums. Okay, First of all, in the VR community, after the last women's summit, we created a forum of female leaders and we meet every month virtually and we talk about different things and educate each other and support each other, and it's a wonderful feeling. And I also do it. On the tech community, I mentor young female entrepreneurs and I meet with female leaders in the tech space and we learn from different industries and, um, you can do it and you should do it at any age, even if you're, you know, getting uh to higher levels in your career I love that I love it this is
Speaker 1:so good, I learned so much from our gen z teams. Like I, just eat it up. I love it every day. So I kind of consider, like my mentors also, to be doesn't matter, it's ageless.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:What a great conversation for it. Thank you for spending time with us.
Speaker 2:Yes, we appreciate you. This was such a great conversation.
Speaker 1:Wonderful.
Speaker 3:I had great counterparts for the conversation. Well, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, and we'll look forward to having you again, I'm sure, on the podcast, because I feel like this is a conversation that doesn't have limitations. We could just let's let's do this on the regular. I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:Thanks all.
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