Tech, Travel, and Twang!
Come for the thoughts, stay for the tea. The co-founders of Destination Innovate, Jennifer Barbee and Kristen Cruz brew up the latest industry tea every Tuesday - diving into simmering issues, hot trends, and special guests. Grab a cup and let’s spill the tea!
Tech, Travel, and Twang!
Tuesday Tea #7 | Transforming Destination Marketing: Collaboration Over Competition
What if the key to thriving cities lies in collaboration rather than competition? In this Tuesday Tea episode of Tech Travel and Twang, we revisit the heart and soul of our family business, reminding ourselves of the joy and creativity that fuel our work. We also share our recent experience with a unique dual photo shoot, conducted from different locations, proving that investing time in our business image is both fun and essential. Amidst our reflective journey, we shed light on the evolving landscape of Destination Marketing Organizations (DMOs) and their shifting responsibilities in today's dynamic environment.
As remote work continues to reshape our world, cities must offer more than just affordable housing and good schools to attract new residents. We discuss the increasingly vital role of DMOs, Economic Development Corporations (EDCs), and other civic organizations in creating compelling reasons for individuals and families to relocate. Through the example of Allen, Texas, we demonstrate how successful DMOs foster collaboration across various sectors to enhance the overall appeal of a destination. We also explore the potential future of DMOs transforming into Destination Ecosystems, focusing on the holistic experience of both residents and visitors.
Lastly, we tackle the common friction between DMOs and downtown groups, questioning whether a unified strategy could mitigate overlapping responsibilities and lead to more effective marketing efforts. The episode emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for "why" conversations within teams, encouraging idea sharing and reducing the fear of additional workload. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion on fostering collaboration, driving progress in destination marketing, and envisioning the future of cities as vibrant, interconnected ecosystems.
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The Tech, Travel, and Twang Podcast is hosted by Co-Founders, Kristen Cruz and Jenn Barbee with Destination Innovate. Learn More! https://destinationinnovate.com/about/
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Well, hell, welcome back to Tech Travel and Twang. Hi, welcome back to Tech Travel and Twang, our Tuesday tea edition. I'm Jen Barbie with Destination Innovate, my co-host as always, and cousin Kristen Cruz. Hey, kristen.
Speaker 2:Good morning.
Speaker 1:Happy Tuesday. Happy Tuesday. I just shake up that intro a little bit, since we just reintroduced ourselves and let people know that we are actually a family-run owned business, which is super rare in our space.
Speaker 2:It's super rare and I'm so glad that we did a little reintroduction because it feels fresh, right. It feels like we've just come off like a little bit of a I don't know self-reflection. I don't know reflection, absolutely, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And we have to take like extra credit and kudos for doing a dual photo shoot which I think came out chef's kiss, a thousand miles away from each other.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, was that so much fun? Um, one, I think, just sitting down as a, you know, as a duo, right, running running a business, and this is for anybody. That's like running a business with somebody else sitting down and really revisiting the why are we here, why are we doing this, why does it matter, why do we care? All those whys, right? Um, doing that before you actually get into.
Speaker 2:Okay, what does that visual look like? Like? What do we as a, as a, we call ourselves a little power couple, right, like we're running a business. So we're like the new age business power couple. Right, like we're running a business. So we're like the new age business power couple. Right. But what does that look like visually? I think that's what helped us get to something we were really proud of, and the fact that we pulled that off being in completely different spaces. I mean, we were on FaceTime quite a bit of that day just to get one good shot, but that shot is so good, it was so good and it was so fun and, honestly, we don't do that enough. We do not spend that kind of time on our business and on ourselves enough. Like, I'm already ready to do more. Like, what else do we need to do?
Speaker 1:What other?
Speaker 2:photos.
Speaker 1:That is always the story, right? The cobbler's child has no shoes, so when we get those it is a lot of fun. That was a fun Friday thing that we did, but yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we really want to kick off this conversation, and Chris and I have been talking about, instead of these one and done podcasts. Like you listen to this one topic and we've told you everything we possibly know and you never learn anymore. That's not how our brains work, that's not how people listen. So really, we're starting these conversations. So today's start of conversation is more about the broader responsibilities of a destination marketing organization and how that trickles down to different factions who may not see themselves as a DMO. But I really think this is only, and not even a start. Probably we're in the middle of a very long conversation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think what really kicked this off and what really got us talking about kicking this topic off again is the ways in which that we're working with DMOs today and how different those you know, quote unquote DMOs are between the destinations that we're working with, and why how the makeup of those destinations work matter in this.
Speaker 1:You know, in the industry essentially and we're calling them DMO ecosystems because they are an ecosystem they really are, because you know before and I hate to say the pandemic thing so I won't say it, but I just said it but before you know it was really, where's the tax dollar going, where's the dollar going, whoever that dollar is going to. That's the DMO, whether it be a CBB, a TDC, et cetera, et cetera. They control the narrative and they control the dollars. But now, like you mentioned, with DMO ecosystem it's not just about the dollars, it's about the appetite of the way, socially, things are changing. One really good example of, I think, an EDC taking some responsibility with DMO is a great one. You could talk about Kristen in Texas.
Speaker 2:In Allen, absolutely, yeah, I think that one of the things that makes a really great destination marketing organization ecosystem is the collaboration between a CBB, an EDC, a city, a chamber all of these factors coming together but sharing in the responsibility of the outcome. The dollar may be different depending on where it's coming from or where it's being allocated to, but essentially the goal and the results of what it is that you're going after is a shared it's just shared ownership of what that looks like, and I think sometimes we tend to look at those KPIs very differently depending on the organization. But what I love about what Island Texas does is they really look at it at a combined way. They really look at the whole destination lift and not by who's contributing the dollar or where the dollar is coming from, but essentially by what contribution each organization can make to the generalized message of why it's a great destination to live, work, play, visit all of these different factors, because that is. It is a very much a shared you know message and it is.
Speaker 2:It is extremely important in today's you know timeframe where, when we, when you, relocate to a place, whether it's for work, for family, whatever that looks like you're not looking at just the factor of what a typical city relocation looks like. You're not looking at. Okay, what are the home prices? What's the public school system look like? You're looking at things like what am I closest to? What local services do I have access to? What attractions are there? Is my family gonna want to come and visit me in this place because there's so many more going on?
Speaker 1:the culture, the arts are so much, yeah, there is there is and you know, um, it's real interesting to look at it from that perspective too, especially since that mind shift has. This is really a more modern mindset that alan is is displaying, because, again, it's not just been about the dollars, but it's also about who can take credit for what right. So it's been about absolutely over here, because what we do is we attract businesses who bring employees who have no choice of where to live, which which is not the case anymore. You can have a huge factory and still have a great big remote workforce. So what would be the benefit?
Speaker 2:So I think it's it's interesting to look at it that way and I think Alan is really on the forefront, especially for a destination that size. Yeah, and you're seeing there's so much more. You're seeing so many more EDCs looking at things differently because of the amount of companies that allow a work from anywhere component, you know, you don't necessarily have to relocate to work for a company in these, you know, these days. So there's so much more that has to attract someone to physically move themselves or their entire family, and they're looking at it long term. It's a long term situation and so I think EDCs are really coming into that forefront of looking at it differently. But also there's so many that aren't, and this is why we're having this conversation. Oh my gosh, there's still so many cities who don't, who, who don't talk amongst the organizations. They don't come together and create collaborative campaigns and collaborative messaging and put their dollars together to do bigger things. It's still very siloed and that's going to continue to be a struggle for those.
Speaker 1:I think, I think, from what we've seen play out too, it goes a couple of ways. It becomes silo, because again, not just the dollars, but also who takes credit for what? Because again, you know, getting good credit that's a lot of what feeds you when you're a civil servant, you're working in those kind of, those kind of pieces. So it becomes competitive. And I love what you said about a shared outcome. There's no incentive in a lot of these structures to work together at all. As a matter of fact, it's the opposite. How does the CVB do better than the chamber and something? How does it becomes toxic and that is going to attract toxic travelers. That's going to create a toxic community. That's going to create toxic relocations. I don't have a choice anymore. Time to break it up right, right.
Speaker 2:And so the question becomes how do you do that? How do you go from a very uncollaborative environment in a certain city where you don't typically work with your? You know, the CMOs don't work together like that. They have their initiatives, their boards, their mission and they kind of independently go about it. So how do you pull together and create an ecosystem?
Speaker 1:I think you pull a Marvel Comics. You find a common enemy or a common problem that you have to solve for your destination, and then you end up collaborating with strange bedfellows, if you will, to get that done.
Speaker 1:It may not be the ones we even listed out here. It may not be your normal chambers, EDCs, parks and recs cities. It could be a whole other type of opportunity collaboration. It could be a small artist circle. It could be so many different things, but I think a common problem that you can't solve on your own is a great place to start with. Where do I start my collaboration strategy?
Speaker 2:Right, right. I also feel like it really takes a consistent no, okay, good, a destination marketing organization. That is one of those people that's like, yeah, we should be collaborating more often. We could actually solve more of our problems together, but I don't know how to start that. Or I don't know how to create that ecosystem of people wanting to play together, find a common problem that can be solved somehow for each of the organizations in the destination and start contributing potential solutions, start finding ways of pulling together, and sometimes it takes getting your board involved. I mean, I'm throwing out ideas and I think one of the things that we're going to do, jen, at some point, is have DMOs on our podcast to talk through this. This is where this conversation continues to move through, and we hear from DMOs who are either in the trenches trying to do this now or have done a good job of this in the past. But essentially, where do you start? Like what are is? Is it finding a common problem and starting to find possible solutions and throwing those solutions out?
Speaker 1:I think that's also, if we go on the other side that's as we call it, because we're an agency, the client side, right, but if we flip on the other side, on the vendor side, on our side, there's also a need for a lot more collaborations, and I see that happening more and more because, again, dmos are constantly, constantly getting new. Here's this new media, here's this new tech, here's this new thing? Agencies are constantly trying to block that or filter that through whatever lens they're having. Going on, there could be so much more collaboration and de-duplication of effort and oh, yeah, oh yeah, and that could potentially be a conversation starter.
Speaker 2:I feel like I feel like as a DMO, like, let's say, I get approached by I'm not going to throw a tool name out there but but XYZ, new tool in the industry, and they come at me and they say, ok, this tool is going to cost you fifty thousand dollars a year, like the subscription. And I say, ok, I don't have fifty50,000 a year, but I might have $20,000 a year. I can go out to my DMO ecosystem and say, hey, this is something you guys could benefit from. What if we did a cost share? What if we all chipped in and we shared this subscription? And we shared this subscription? Not only are we doing a cost share scenario, but we're also doing, we're also being very efficient with this tool. Right now, we all have access to this $50,000 a year tool and our teams are being trained together and it creates an even deeper level of ecosystem where your teams are actually working together.
Speaker 1:And your marketing team social media team yes, I love that data collaboration is becoming a thing, also because that's another like evolution I'm happy to see because it was for you. I don't want this star report to be shared with the next city. Well, I can get information on anybody's star report anyway. So it was kind of a it was a dumb proprietary feeling that people weren't sharing. But what's it matter? Share the the data I can get data. Anybody can get data on anything, anywhere, any, any place, if they really wanted to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and why not share the data at least among your city teams? Right, because for one, it's what's really frustrating. It's what's really frustrating and this is something that I feel like I'm going through right now is when you're pulling data for a particular or you're looking for studies, or you're looking for research on a particular topic three different versions of the exact same report with the exact same findings, but they each paid an exorbitant amount of money for this study. It's frustrating, like why would you not talk to me?
Speaker 1:I know I've uncovered a lot of that with some recent clients as well, and I just want to go back to like 1980, susan, powder and yell. Stop the insanity. It's just sometimes crazy what has been there, what's been shelved, what's never been utilized, what's never been revisited.
Speaker 2:And that just goes back to the basic idea of just information sharing. Go to lunch once a month and be like hey, what are you guys working on? Hey, what things are you guys, you know, getting into what's on the? You know, just having a consistent conversation can sometimes bring to the surface really important things. Like, hey, maybe we shouldn't all pay $100,000 for this one thing, maybe we should pay it once, say, $300,000. Yeah, you know, it's like simple conversations that can result in extremely exorbitant savings. Like it's just, it's crazy to me Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's a really good point. I want people to take home, but you know, and not just yeah, just when you say have coffee with them, I love that. But also not just in your community, in your city, but you know, reach out to a DMO leader at the same level You've never met 3,000 miles away. Hey, just want to introduce myself. Dmo people are so willing to help other DMO people and willing to get on the phone.
Speaker 1:And even, you know, even with suppliers. If I'm like I've got an idea, I'm not sure it's good, I don't know if I want to take it to market, I could probably get three or four DMO leaders to give me really good, honest feedback. So definitely have coffee with not just in your community, but like jump on Zoom once twice a month with someone you haven't met yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. It's really nice to see how much more collaboration is happening, though, and how many more DMOs are willing to collaborate with each other. Jump on calls, go to lunch, have coffee, meet up at conferences, whatever, but it is really refreshing to see how much more is happening.
Speaker 1:It's just such a new era and I know there's a lot of people my era, my age, my generation is still in here, but it feels like they've refreshed too, like some of the very buttoned down DMO leaders I knew, who are a little bit older than me at the very beginning of my career, are now just the most open, welcoming, authentic people ever. So I just like seeing and looking back and seeing that we are at the point of unbridled collaboration if we so want.
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, it's, it's. I think a lot of it is because I feel like I think about this more often now than I did earlier in my career. It's about purpose. I think it's like what are we? Okay, we're all answering the question of why are we here? Why are we doing this? Right For our career, for our personal or our professional lives? But, personally, what's our purpose? Like, what are we giving? What information are we giving back? What learnings are we giving back? Who are we mentoring? And I think you helped today, yeah, yeah, and I think there's. You know, as you move through your career in the same industry, you look for ways of how can I make things better for the next generation of industry marketers and people coming into the industry fresh.
Speaker 1:You have to you have to revitalize your. Why, I think?
Speaker 2:that's the.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great point you made, but also a message to those of us listening who've been in the industry a couple of decades or longer, like Kristen and I have, is sometimes that why, as long as the end of the day is, am I helping somebody? What am I doing? That why is going to change? Because the why you know we're pulling something out, doing a cool campaign for one particular particular client today, maybe a completely different why next week of helping a different dmo reach a different audience uh, you know, or you know, reach a different segment. So I think the why I think that's okay, as long as your goals stay really aligned your wise can fluctuate, because I'm motivated by different things every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And plus, our moods change. Like my mood one day may not be in a helpful way, but it contributed Maybe. Like no, this is my me day. I'm focusing on me and what I need and I'm going to be selfish today and tomorrow I'll be a little bit forgiving. I feel like that. You know that has to change. Like you're just what you contribute and how that motivates you as a person has to change. Otherwise we would be so bored, We'd be so stuck, you know, we wouldn't really be evolving as a people. It just yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Life would not be as exciting as it is, and that's the why part comes back to the collaboration too. So why you might have gone to the EDC in the past might be a different why for this year or for future planning for three years from now, like your why can change as well for, uh, for your collaboration.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm, I think it, and I think it has to, because our whys are also evolving, because our industry is changing, our what, what tools we have access to, are changing, our travelers are changing, so we have to evolve, evolve our lives. I think it's good to kind of sit down to and, collectively, as a destination, um, answer that question with your, with your whole ecosystem, with your whole team, with everything you're doing why are we doing this?
Speaker 1:and if the answer ever is because we've always done it that way, whatever that is, go straight in the trash exactly, exactly that kicks off, which is why I always have to do a dumb sales plug in here. Which is why we love doing our VIP days in our think weeks, because if you don't know what needs to go in the trash, trust me we'll tell you well that, and it also it's, but it's about creating a space.
Speaker 2:I think I think the biggest issue is always well, not always. I think the biggest issue is always well, not always. I think the biggest issue that we most often uncover is that there's never a space created to start a why? Conversation or to create and cultivate those aha moments. It's like the space and that's what the VIP in the week does. It creates a space for essentially basically telling you know or giving your team a reason or a space to say why are we doing this, why are we all here? Why are we in this room right now? What is our collective, why?
Speaker 1:And once you create that space, space, then things start to like you know for lack of a better word a safe space, because a lot of people are coming in. You know they come to those and they're clutching their stuff because they don't want to let go of their stuff, because what's that mean to their job, to their stuff or whatever? But again, your space is creating even a safe space like this isn't threatening anybody.
Speaker 2:Let's find better ways to do things then, no one's clutching as much it's yeah, and also sharing ideas. Idea sharing, I feel like, is really important, but at the same time, it's not always the space to to share ideas isn't always there for dmos, because when you're not sure, again there's that. You know, you have this sense of like, um, you know, yeah, like that and also I I noticed this mindset a lot.
Speaker 1:It's not just emos, this is really just kind of leading into corporate america. If you come up with a new idea, you got to do extra work. So it's also the. You know people are burned out. If it looks like work, they probably don't want to touch it.
Speaker 2:So how do you make it look like exactly exactly that's, it's, yeah, it's, yeah. It's a difficult, it's a difficult topic, but slowly, just. We always say progress over perfection doesn't have to be like you. You know, you start this and all of a sudden everyone's perfect and everything that they're doing and bringing to the table and the wheels are turning. It's just slow and steady progress.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter how slow you walk, you're still running laps around the dude on the couch or doesn't. Yeah, it's very, it's, that's so true it's been in my head while I'm trying to get my steps in every day lately, so to remind me of that's so true, it's so true well, I love the start of this conversation.
Speaker 1:Again, maybe not a start, maybe a middle, but I would love to hear from other DMOs. Uh, you know, if you know any guests, we're super open for a call for guests on these kind of conversations and dig in with even more tea on. What are you know? What are you know, what are some common challenges, what are some common solutions in a seamless collaboration strategy for your DMO ecosystem.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think that's what we need. We need to, we need to hear from those that are in the trenches every day. What is not working, what has worked, what are you currently trying to figure out? You know, and there may even be some new challenges that we're not even aware of. You know, in the DMO space that we could bring up. So, yeah, I feel like having some of those deeper conversations with our DMO friends would be really important to this, and even some of the stakeholders that are in the destinations too, that are seeing this from a different perspective, that are seeing the collaboration, or the lack of, from a different perspective, because, again, when you're talking about a destination marketing organization, you also have to think about major players in the destination and their marketing teams that also make up a big factor of who, of how people are coming into a destination, especially those that you know that are. You have certain destinations that rely solely on huge attractions. I think we're going to see an evolution of these organizations.
Speaker 1:I really do, because when you look at a lot of DMOs still being membership driven and you've got chambers and that is an antithetical, you know situation and you have CVBs somewhat responsible for people that come in and whether people decide to move or live there or whatever. So I kind of feel like we're going to see a big evolution and the types of organizations, just like we've seen in HR and corporate America. You know, we've seen a big shift in in how they deal with people. Now I think we're going to have to look at how cities and destinations and regions deal with people, not just travelers, not just residents, not just what is the people marketing organization? Write that down, we just did. Pmo Kristen.
Speaker 2:People marketing organization. That's so true, because the other thing that we haven't really talked about which I do want to dig into on a future podcast is the when you're talking about dmos. We haven't even touched on the downtown groups, the main streets are.
Speaker 1:There are cultures, are those little actions in there?
Speaker 2:no, there are entire destinations right that are reliant on their downtown being vibrant and lively and full and busy, and you know programming on point and seasonality, like, and so that's a whole different organization. And I will tell you, one of the biggest things I hear when there is a destination like that with the downtown, is the friction between the DMO and the downtown group, because there is a lot of overlap. You're, you know you're, you're marketing collectively a space within a destination, but one feels like that's my entire job, right, like this is my entire ecosystem, and the other is like okay, well, it's maybe 50% of my ecosystem, but you're still overlapping. How do you?
Speaker 1:talk about the duplication of effort, and I know neither one, because there's jobs, you know, attached to both of those. Do you need both things? Is that the most strategic thing to do or can you collapse and combine those things for a bigger, broader strategy and maybe look at collaboration outside of your own competition, looking at collaborating with lifestyle brands and collaborating with those who have pockets and no dog in the hunt Right.
Speaker 2:Love this topic. I was going to say we could possibly continue.
Speaker 1:This could be a six-hour podcast, but I think that's enough to whet the appetite, so we'll leave you guys at this pausing point. Pick up next Tuesday. We've got some new, really big, exciting guests coming on as well, so y'all be good to each other, absolutely.
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